Antville Project

next steps

a nice evening talking with hannes brought up a bucket full of ideas what to do next with antville. What you think about?

  1. authors should be able to define shortcuts for stories. those stories can also be reached via "/stories/[shortcut]" (to enable linking to permanent stories i.e. in skins

  2. either display offline-stories in a different way than those stories online or create a "story-manager" where one could easily get an overview about the status of the stories. right now as an admin you'll see even offline-stories as they would be online, but you're the only one who can reach them ;-)

  3. implement "topics" ("sections"? "departments"?). think of this as a way to structure stories inside a weblog and to get the possibility to somehow "categorize" stories. so one could open up a topic named "software development" and create stories inside. topics would have their own overview-page.

  4. remove the color- & font-definitions from weblog and put them into a new "style"-prototype. each weblog and each topic could then have it's own style-object, so topics must not have the same appearence as the rest of the weblog.

  5. allow overwriting of the main-skin (which is now in prototype "global") within "weblog", "topic", "story" etc. so any of these prototypes can have a different appearence (i.e. one could use different background-images for the frontpage and some of the topics)

  6. authors should be able to write a "lead-text" for a story, which then would be displayed on the frontpage instead of the whole story (the lead would link to the full text of the story). if a story has no lead-text, it will be displayed with it's full text on the frontpage.

  7. implement a "goodie pool" where one can upload any content in binary form (i.e. sound files, pdf's ...) and handle these goodies similar to the image-handling right now.

  8. the skin-editor should on the one hand only allow those skins editable that make sense to be edited, and also allow the creation of "custom skins" that one can embed in other (default-)skins with the existing skin-macro.

  9. invitation: a weblog-admin should be able to invite users to participate within this weblog (as an admin or contributor). if the user is not registered already, the account will be created and an invitation-mail will be sent to the user (including username & password).

  10. each weblog should be reachable with "[weblog-alias].antville.org" instead of "antville.org/[weblog-alias]".

  11. antville should completely be language-sensitive, so one could change the language i.e. to german and not only the system-messages, but also the form-element-descriptions et.al. should be presented in the german language.

comment    

 
matthias, July 3, 2001 at 9:46:34 AM CEST

my thoughts (matthias)

  1. authors should be able to define shortcuts for stories.

  2. either display offline-stories in a different way

who is seeing these stories right now (admin, registered, .. ?)

  1. implement "topics"

??? the trouble with topics is, that you often don't know what topic your story is about. and maybe it covers two topics. i think the personal log works better than the topic log.

maybe its a better idea to connect differnt logs, or to personalize (my)Antville, where a user(reader) sees his favourit logs (which would be the topics)

the more i think about this, topics are not a good idea to me. it would be a lot better for the antville site if people have to link to other logs, rather then build there own getto (a site within the site). a user could read a lot of blogs, with his own skin. or sHe could collect a few blogs, and publish this collection, what would not be very far away from the topics frame.

??? please comment

  1. remove the color- & font-definitions from weblog

lets get rid of them

  1. authors should be able to write a "lead-text" for a story

why not just display the first 200 chars. at least as another option.

7)8) +1

  1. invitation

i think there is a lot of potential by registering to a weblog. for readers and contributers.

link  

 
robert, July 3, 2001 at 10:31:40 AM CEST

ad 2) offline-stories right now appear to admins and contributors as they were online (but all the other users don't see them). not good ...

ad 3) the benefit with topics (i think the better term is "sections" or "departments") would be that you CAN create them and add stories, but there is no must - just as a possibility. there will always be the normal way just to write stories as it is now. i don't see topics as "content-ghettos", more as a way you can put your stories about one of your interests together (and present them also in this way to your readers).

  1. displaying the first 200 or so characters is a technical way to solve the problem, but not a "journalistic" way. i'd prefer the latter one ('cause the author of a story knows how to summarize the story, software never does).

link  


... comment
 
Chronistin, July 3, 2001 at 10:53:35 AM CEST

my 2 cents

    • Shortcuts - nice gimmick, but not vital
    • story-manager is definitely a great idea
    • topics would be excellent. this should work in a way that you don't have to assign a topic to a story, but if you do, gives you the possibility to view all stories of that topic with a mouseklick. with a new macro that automatically generates a list of topics... great feature!
        • style & skins - sounds sensible, but we have to be careful so things don't get too complex for simple users.
    • lead - great idea.
    • goodie-pool - absolutely yes!
    • restrict access to skins /costum skins - could be hard to determine which skins make sense to be edited ;-) as for costum skins, its again a matter of not making things too complicated...
    • invitation - nice gimmick!
    • url - would be great!
    • language - also great, but think of a panic-button (if user tries out some languages and can't read form elements in his settings any more - he needs a big red button "reset to english" ;-)

link  


... comment
 
tobi, July 3, 2001 at 11:57:12 AM CEST

antville = manila + blogger?

all ideas are good and most of them really necessary. manila and blogger (and many other weblog / news tools) proove that.

i could add now static rendering via ftp and rss output as some more features already known from those services.

however, i wonder if an tville could not improve the weblog tool itself with a different approach.

imho, especially the skin features are neat but nevertheless overextend the simple weblogger (rememerb: it should be easy to do it).

all skins certainly should be available for those who really dare to fiddle around for a while. but i assume that most people feel rather stressed than satisfied with 20 or more layout parts to edit (ms word effect).

would be cool to find a better, more simple mechanism to achieve a perfect layout. any thoughts on that?

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 12:45:04 PM CEST

simple use

well it IS simple to use, but i like the idea - even it will take time - to have the skin-editor right there where it is: i don´t have to touch it, if i don´t want to. at least it gives me the feeling: i can, when i want and not just have the feeling of zensorship or: someone is telling me: oh, you don´t need this, because you will never get it, it´s too complicated blablabla, because i am an average user ..

perfect layout? isn´t that really personal??? and therefore hard to overrule??

the only thing i hate on the skin editor manual is the phrase: by doing this, you can loose everything. that keeps people away from playing around, i guess.

and for the simple start: i just played with the prefs.

maybe you need a discription somewhere else: like "getting started" for how to link to whatever: images or urls

link  

 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 12:48:22 PM CEST

Yes,

we talked about that too. My idea is to confront the user with just a selection of skins (with telling names), like "pagetemplate" or "weblogentry".

Also, we probably need a "panic - reset skins" functionality to deal with infinite recursion and the like.

link  

 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 2:00:12 PM CEST

Also,

something I find confusing (apart from the number and arrangement of skinlets to edit) is the way they go down from page-level to detail, seemingly leaving out some important middle part. At the page level you deal with response.head and response.body (note that if I included the macro tags i'd make this page crash), and then you immediately have all the detail mini-skins. What's missing IMHO is a skin that defines what goes into the body of some specific page.

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 2:08:17 PM CEST

simple correction

just start with the most used and asked for items?? go on with details and and specific changes? maybe it´s getting too confusing to have too many departments where to go to and edit something.

link  

 
tobi, July 3, 2001 at 2:31:43 PM CEST

oversimplified

keep the skin-editor where it is, alright. but editing the layout is a must for a weblog service (the intention of the "perfect layout" was certainly meant to be a personal issue).

so as hannes wrote, some skins like page template etc. have to be available for john sixblog without getting in touch with all of the others.

but again i just notice that we follow the trampled path. in no way i want us to re-invent the wheel. but would it not be a good chance to think over the general weblog management, though?

link  

 
robert, July 3, 2001 at 8:29:30 PM CEST

re: simple use

i know that the phrase "if you do that, you'll loose everything" should have no place in a manual, but

  1. the description of the macros is still not finished (quite a lot of them are missing) and
  2. antville isn't finished (obviously), so i had to tell the users what might be dangerous .. i also forgot to add, that you never should place response.body in a skin beside the global/main.skin, and i forgot. and what [Macro not allowed in sandbox: comment.link] ?

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 9:51:14 PM CEST

;))

vale, vale amigo. i know it is named as test. so ni problema con este. talking on formulations would be a nice topic for a camp-situation, no?

link  


... comment
 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 1:09:20 PM CEST

just wondering

when does "reply to this comm" appear and when not? is there an inconsistance?? can just one person reply to a comment???

and: panic? all right, pero just "last saved" would be more neutral. and gives you the feeling of: tranquila, ni problema.

link  

 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 1:16:39 PM CEST

Reply-ability

I think you can reply to first-level comments only, so you have a discussion that's one level deep: comments and replies to comments. I think this is a nice compromise between flat and nested discussions (seems to work well also on fm4.orf.at). If you want to reply to a comment on a comment, you simply reply to the original comment. (right?)

link  

 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 1:17:18 PM CEST

Re: Reply-ability

Just like this.

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 1:21:18 PM CEST

si

pero, i can´t do it with the message de don robert?? por que????

link  

 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 1:27:32 PM CEST

Oh I see

To reply to Robert's top level entry, there's a form at the bottom of this page. Maybe it would be better to have a link to a separate submit-top-level-comment page right after the original entry and at the bottom of the page?

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 1:30:05 PM CEST

no

esta no verdad, senor :)) no way to answer overthere: see what happens below

link  

 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 1:37:42 PM CEST

Falls das gemeint ist:

To answer to Robert's reply to Matthias' comment, answer to Matthias' comment.

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 1:47:32 PM CEST

why????

can you explain it to me simplemente? we can play this here comment after comment, its fun. but i don´t want to reply to matthias, pero to roberts first story. "next step" that´s it

to put something right under the story of robert - the original - would be of great help. it appears sometimes and sometimes not?? if i look at all the entries here. i think, that´s why i don´t get it and that is what i am asking for.

starting to read above, i have to admit: not being clear at the beginning is my profession :))

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hns, July 3, 2001 at 2:05:31 PM CEST

I see.

You did reply to Robert's top level posting. You can't post something immediately beneath it because other people already posted comments and comments are in chronological order. I know reverse chronological order (where newer comments appear on top) is also very popular, but I prefer it this way.

link  

 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 2:14:50 PM CEST

just realized

was not going "home", so to say. confusion, because of being too long in here. things happen ... i agree with you on the chronical order, sisisi.

besides weblogs you are used to see comments right after the article. and in here you are loosing contact with the home-page. getting mixed up with the possibility to read the original story "next step", but only having the possibility to comment on comments directly or facing the formular at the end, where you get the feeling: it´s too far away. at least in this case, when you get the comments of the comments in between and in a certain lenght.

link  


... comment
 
matthias, July 3, 2001 at 1:10:10 PM CEST

simple vs complex

(i could not reply to my own copmment / roberts comment)

ad 3) it's not that i don't like the idea of "sections", but on the other hand i learned to love hensos simple aproaches. henso.com works so nice, because there is just one page (in general), no extra stuff, no wondering what link to click, just the pure blogging idea.

i wrote a simple multi-chapter-blogger on knallgrau.at with multiple users(contributers), and what i learned from it, that it was hard for peaople to decide, where to post there stuff. that doesn't occure when you are blogging on your own.

but when you(we) find a way that it's realy just an option it will work.

what do you think about the ideas to link multiple blogs ? (favourits, best of, webring, ...)

and maybe view them with your own personal skin.

link  

 
robert, July 3, 2001 at 3:08:31 PM CEST

the point is just

that you CAN create a section in your weblog if you want to, there will be no MUST. if you want a section named "hop-development" for your stories that deal with that, you can create a section. every story within this section will also appear on the frontpage (as usual), but also on the main page of the section.

link  


... comment
 
hns, July 3, 2001 at 1:15:50 PM CEST

xxx.antville.org

weblogname.antville.org is now implemented from the Apache side (example), but the intra-weblog URLs won't yet work.

link  


... comment
 
motzes, July 3, 2001 at 1:28:45 PM CEST

so what happens

if i use this??

link  


... comment


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